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Q B
February 22, 2022 at 12:22 pm
Jordan played more than 6 years so what happened the other seasons because they don’t talk about it. Ask Isaiah Thomas
Juice Lord
February 22, 2022 at 12:27 pm
That Zeke Thomas team was legit. 6 all stars (not including the ones traded like Adrien Dantley) with 3 Hall of Famers and a Hall of Fame coach. Sheesh. Celtics had one of the greatest teams of all time in the 80’s, 76ers did too…steep competition
Brandon Moyd
February 22, 2022 at 1:17 pm
He played 11 full seasons on the Bulls & won 6 rings. More then half his career on the Bulls he won rings
metal pharaoh
February 22, 2022 at 1:26 pm
@Brandon Moyd and LeBron is in year 19 sitting at 4 6/15 is much better than 4/19 if you ask me
LilSuge919
February 22, 2022 at 12:26 pm
She Is so fine
SwoleGod7
February 22, 2022 at 12:33 pm
MJ is MJ.. and Bron is post confessions Usher. Shouldn’t even be a comparison, but Klutch pays the media to promote Bron’s underachieving legacy.
Minh Urban
February 22, 2022 at 12:33 pm
Stephen A and Skip bringing up Dray not being there in game 5 but that was the rule…what about Love not being in the 2015 Finals and Kyrie not being there in the 2015 Finals from Game 2 TO Game 6? People always ignore the 2015 Finals
itshiho
February 22, 2022 at 3:03 pm
@Minh Urban Yeah of course it wouldn’t have mattered when LeBron wins but when it’s the other way around then it’s every lexcuse in the world. LeBron has had more lexcuses made for him when it comes to losing than any other superstar in NBA history. Okay then I’ll say that even if the Cavs were fully healthy in 2015 GS would have beat them anyway. Then I’ll say if it weren’t for the Draymond Green suspension and if GS was healthy they would have won in 2016. I’ll also say if CP3 didn’t get hurt then the Rockets would have gotten past GS in 2018, though LeBron with his big 3 was whining about playing them before that series even started in 2017 when they only won 1 game. You see the lexcues are only reserved for LeBron but no one else gets them 🤷♂.
Minh Urban
February 22, 2022 at 3:07 pm
@itshiho if the Cavs front office knew how to build a team, LeBron would have 10 rings by now and there would be no question mark on who the GOAT is.
Woulda shoulda…all I’m saying is if you bring up 2016, bring up 25 to make it even. That’s all Im asking for.
itshiho
February 22, 2022 at 3:47 pm
@Minh Urban I swear you LeBron lovers say the most ridiculous stuff. One moment you’re bragging about how Lebron gets everyone paid and is the GM, then you’re complaining about management. One moment you’re all bragging about how LeBron can do everything by himself but then when he loses then he didn’t have enough help. Lebron has played with more stars and stacked the deck more times than anyone in NBA history. You guys to me are like how Stephen A Smith feels about the Cowboy fans. Hopefully LeBron is gone by the end of next season if not this one then I can root for the Lakers again.
itshiho
February 22, 2022 at 5:08 pm
@Robert Jacob Another thing when MJ won his 1st title Pippen didn’t even make the All-Star team despite starting and playing all 82 games. I saw Pippen play and he was a great player but he’s definitely overrated from playing with MJ and winning 6 chips. He’s about the equivalent of a Paul George. Paul George is the better offensive player and Pippen was the better defensive player but they were both 2-way players.
LeBron’s 8 straight trips to the finals are very overrated as he had no real competition in the East while he constructed two different big 3s. Here’s proof that LeBron was basically going to the finals for free all those years as there was virtually no competition in the East compared to the West:
All NBA Team comparisons during LeBron’s 8 straight trips to the finals East vs West from 2011-2018. A total of 40 players each for 1st, 2nd and 3rd team All-NBA
1st team west 30 east 10 (8 from LeBron)
2011 w 3 e 2 (lebron, rose)
2012 w 4 e 1 (lebron)
2013 w 4 e 1 (lebron)
2014 w 3 e 2 (lebron, noah)
2015 w 4 e 1 (lebron)
2016 w 4 e 1 (lebron)
2017 w 4 e 1 (lebron)
2018 w 4 e 1 (lebron)
2nd team w 31 e 9 (1 from Wade LeBron’s teammate)
2011 w 3 e 2 (wade, Stoudemire)
2012 w 5 e 0
2013 w 4 e 1 (carmelo)
2014 w 5 e 0
2015 w 4 e 1 (P Gasol)
2016 w 5 e 0
2017 w 3 e 2, (Isaiah Thomas, Giannis)
2018 w 2 e 3 (Derozan, Giannis, Embiid)
3rd team w 22 e 18 (2 from Wade and 1 from Kyrie LeBron’s teammates)
2011 w 4 e 1 (Hordord)
2012 w 1 e 4 (wade, chandler, carmelo, rondo)
2013 w 3 e 2 (wade, Paul George)
2014 w 3 e 2 (Al Jefferson, Paul George)
2015 w 4 e 1 (Kyrie)
2016 w 2 e 3 (Drummond, Lowry, Paul George)
2017 w 2 e 3 (DeRozan, Wall, Jimmy Butler)
2018 w 3 e 2 (Jimmy Butler, Oladipo)
This is pure facts that Lebron had WAY less competition during those 8 straight finals trips. I’m sure the Lebron lovers will try to find a way though to say this didn’t happen LOL.
johnny twillie
February 22, 2022 at 12:37 pm
Idk, i like sickly molly, less annoying. Dont want her to die of covid but her being sick for the rest of time wouldnt hurt her image🤷🏿♂️
Kai Streets Visuals
February 22, 2022 at 12:41 pm
As a winner the most measurable stat is winning percentage. Both regular season and finals, Jordan’s winning percentage is 65.9%. LeBron’s is 65.8%. That’s insanely close. Factor in Finals competition and I’ll make it even, even though their finals competition wasn’t close to being even. Still my two headed GOAT.
Phernz
February 22, 2022 at 12:51 pm
By far the two best of all time.
Devonte Wise
February 22, 2022 at 1:53 pm
Yeah and his winning % in the finals is 40% and mj is 100%. Stop
Kai Streets Visuals
February 22, 2022 at 2:19 pm
@Devonte Wise MJ’s teams were also heavily favorited in all 6 of his finals appearances. Competition is a factor right? The same people saying LeBron won a Mickey Mouse ring praise MJ for going 6 and 0 against team that his teams were clearly better than. Have some perspective. That the only thing LeBron’s haters fail to have. It’s wild. I have perspective because I watched their careers extremely closely. That’s why they’re both my GOAT. There’s no such thing as one. It’s an illogical argument.
llIllZlIlIl
February 22, 2022 at 12:48 pm
Molly and Steven A got a lot of tension towards one another
Porter Porter
February 22, 2022 at 1:14 pm
Not Really. Stephen A Is Like This With Everyone 😂
Devonte Wise
February 22, 2022 at 1:29 pm
It’s always been like this
J Johnson
February 22, 2022 at 4:58 pm
Im glad im not the only 1 that noticed that lil exchange towards the end. They definitely not rocking with each other rn n i wouldn’t be surprised if we saw some changes soon.
Steppa Baby
February 22, 2022 at 6:04 pm
Best comment in the thread. Thought I was the only 1 that noticed
Boss Lady83
February 22, 2022 at 12:49 pm
MJ was not winning his whole career so stop it he did play more than six seasons and not to mention he did take a break or was forced out or whatever. Also Washington does count even though media ignores it as well as the beginning of his career even not being the best player on his high school team or college team.
metal pharaoh
February 22, 2022 at 1:24 pm
You realize LeBron is in year 19 and still has won less right?
Mr. jamel
February 22, 2022 at 1:37 pm
@metal pharaoh not in the playoffs
Devonte Wise
February 22, 2022 at 1:39 pm
@Mr. jamel in the finals, were it matters the most
metal pharaoh
February 22, 2022 at 1:43 pm
@Mr. jamel how when he’s won the championship more?
itshiho
February 22, 2022 at 1:07 pm
There’s nothing LeBron can do. MJ is at a whole different level. LeBron is there with Kobe, Kareem, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Shaq, etc and that’s it. MJs 2nd best player Pippen played and started all 82 games and didn’t even make the All-Star team the year MJ won his 1st title, while LeBron had to create two different big 3s to win and he still lost 5 finals in one decade, enough said.
Showtime TV
February 22, 2022 at 1:26 pm
Don’t put Kobe in Lebron tier .. he’s nowhere near Kobe and Mj level .. dude should have atleast 7 or 8 titles with all them superstars
Devonte Wise
February 22, 2022 at 1:49 pm
@Showtime TV facts
Armand Pierre
February 22, 2022 at 2:12 pm
Huh LMFAOOOOOOO y’all don’t know basketball did you not watch those finals shut up ! Y’all talk like Jordan ain’t have great teams that won 60+ games every year lol like pip and Rodman weren’t all time greats helping that man but you talking bout he had to construct a big three and lose your a blind witness did bron not play a great San Antonio team and then a great Warriors team with multiple all stars ! Bron and MJ two the greatest ever both having to rise to the moments in different ways
General Knowledge
February 22, 2022 at 1:57 pm
KiD ‘n’ PLaY
😂
Rishi J Lad
February 22, 2022 at 2:03 pm
He keeps saying Winner…..who won more games and more efficiently in the Playoffs?
Ancestral Rage
February 22, 2022 at 2:15 pm
Soooooooo. We ignore all the years he didn’t make it to the finals at all huh
K Ven
February 22, 2022 at 3:20 pm
No. What Stephen A is saying is ONCE HE GOT to the finals, he never froze like Lebron did against Dallas when he had a crew.
Ancestral Rage
February 22, 2022 at 4:21 pm
@Robert Jacob 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
K Ven
February 22, 2022 at 4:25 pm
@Robert Jacob powerful
Marty Collins, Esq.
February 22, 2022 at 2:15 pm
Under Stephen A criteria Bill Russell is the best player ever
T. GO
February 22, 2022 at 4:33 pm
@Robert Jacob dude see a therapist
Rolland Curtis
February 22, 2022 at 2:28 pm
2:40 Actually Mike Jordan is in a room all by himself.
Blackout Red 333
February 22, 2022 at 3:21 pm
Lebron James coming back to Cleveland would be awesome for the NBA. Cleveland would destroy teams.
A hi a hi
February 22, 2022 at 3:34 pm
Tim Duncan should be in the same conversation
5 time NBA championship
3 time NBA finals MVP
6 NBA finals appearances
19 years never missed the postseason
C-Red
February 22, 2022 at 3:46 pm
goat talk will always be generational for me, I didn’t grow up watching mj, I know about his accomplishments, I’ve seen the highlights, but the fact is I didn’t experience 90s basketball. Lebron was my childhood so he’ll always be the goat to me, he could 4-10 in the finals and it wouldn’t change how I feel.
Robert Jacob
February 22, 2022 at 4:15 pm
Lebron would be slightly better than Pippen on the offensive end and well beneath Pippen on the defensive end if he’d played in MJ’s era. MJ had a season that he averaged 32.5/8/8, proving he could play Lebron’s style, while being more elite on the offensive and defensive end. But let’s calculate the possessions differential between the two era’s for that season. Did you know those stats would be more like 37/10/10, if MJ had the same amount of possession opportunities as Lebron has today? That’s before calculating the average effeciency difference between the two era’s, with all the floor spacing in today’s game, on top of the defensive rule changes which allow for more points on higher efficiency, as the NBA averages have improved in those categories.
MJ had the lowest surrounding scoring cast of teammates among all superstars throughout NBA history to go on and win a title. He holds this feat 5 out of the top 10 times, including the top 3 spots. MJ is also 11-0 in all championship opportunities and 6-0 in the finals. Despite Lebron having the most help all-time, he’s 6-6 in all championship opportunities, and 4-6 in the finals.
Dennis Rodman (1998 Playoffs)
MIN PPG FG% 3P% FT%
34.4 4.9 37.1 25.0 60.5
REB ASST BLK STL
11.8 2.0 0.6 0.7
Dennis Rodman (1997 Playoffs)
MIN PPG FG% 3P% FT%
28.2 4.2 37.0 25.0 57.7
REB ASST BLK STL
8.4 1.4 0.2 0.5
Scottie Pippen (1998 Playoffs)
MIN PPG FG% 3P% FT%
39.8 16.8 41.5 22.8 67.9
REB ASST
7.1 5.2
Lebron has never carried such horrible teammates to a championship. I don’t want to hear nothing about Kerr either. He took some of the least shots per possessions ever, only taking a shot if a defender wasn’t within 15 feet of him, making him more of a liability on the floor as well.
Lebron has joined and recruited more all-stars, vetran minimum notables and shooter’s to help him succeed than any other superstar throughout NBA history while playing more seasons, yet he’s still been less successful than MJ. Some of Lebron’s notable teammates…
1) JR Smith
2) Kyle Korver
3) Rajon Rondo
4) Dwight Howard
5) Mo Williams
6) Kyle Kuzma
7) Richard Jefferson
8) Larry Hughes
9) Deron Williams
10) Rashard Lewis
11) Derek Rose
12) Jordan Clarkson
13) Jae Crowder
14) Shane Battier
15) Mike Miller
16) Montrezl Harrell
17) Mark Gasol
18) Andre Drummond
19) Dennis Schroder
20) Anderson Verajao
21) Isaiah Thomas
22) Udonis Haslem
23) Chris Andersen
24) Tristan Thompson
25) Shaquille O’Neal
26) Lonzo Ball
27) Brandon Ingram
28) Carlos Boozer
29) Antawn Jamison
30) Danny Green
31) Russell Westbrook
32) Ben Wallace
33) Carmelo Anthony
34) Trevor Ariza
35) Dion Waiters
36) Dwyane Wade
37) Anthony Davis
38) Kyrie Irving
39) Chris Bosh
40) Kevin Love
41) DeAndre Jordan
42) Ray Allen
43) Zydrunas Ilgauskas
(MJ’s best teammate)
Scottie Pippen (Career stats)
16.1 PPG, 32.6 3P%, 70.4 FT%, 6.4 REB, 5.2 ASST, 0.8 BLK
(Lebron’s 11th best teammate)
Antawn Jamison (Career stats)
18.5 PPG, 34.6 3P%, 72.4 FT%, 7.5 REB, 1.6 ASST, 0.4 BLK
MJ’s 2nd best teammate
Dennis Rodman (Career stats)
7.3 PPG, 58.4 FT%, 1.8 ASST, 0.7 STL, 0.6 BLK[
(Lebron’s 12th best teammate)
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Career stats)
13.0 PPG, 78.0 FT%, 1.1 ASST, 0.5 STL, 1.6 BLK
Kawhi has the closest shooting chart and defensive mindset to MJ. Lebron has a losing record in both the regular and post season when facing Kawhi teams. Lebron also has his worst stats when counting only minutes guarded by Kawhi compared to being guarded by any other player in the league. Imagine if Kawhi was a much better scorer, more efficient, more athletic, a better passer, hustled like Westbrook, had the mentality of Kobe, the durability of Lebron, an unmatched work ethic, passed like Wade, trash talked like Bird far more effective leadership, more clutch etc. He would then be a little more like MJ. So if Kawhi poses such problems for Lebron, just think what MJ would do to him. Especially with the trash talking head games.
There’s not an advanced criteria given by a reliable source yet that has Lebron better than 4th all-time. MJ, Wilt and Kareem are on a level of their own. Then Lebron’s been scored a distance behind those three with quite a few other’s. One biased Bron fan even went as far as to score finals losses higher than anything else to attempt to make Lebron look better but all that did was put Wilt on God level and bring Lebron a little closer to MJ and Kareem. Longevity is scored the lowest by any analyst for good reason. For example, Karl Malone has longevity over MJ but he couldn’t get past MJ. Lebron’s somewhere between 4th and 7th all-time, trying to solidify the 4th spot. Prime for prime, he can’t turn back the clock to be better than any of the top 3. Bron’s nutty fanbase are too predictable, trying to ruin sports talk like Lebron tries to ruin the NBA. Using the same lines for years like, “hate” or “rent free.” You all think you can make Lebron the first player in history to not suffer criticism. He has to live with being 4th greatest of all-time at best while having the most tainted legacy ever. Marinate on that for a while.
Lebron’s not only not the greatest player, but he was disrespectfully propelled ahead of a lot of guy’s without proper comparisons being made. All because some young media members come in and decide to do so in the middle of a season before he even accomplished anything further. The very next year, in the middle of a season, he was named the goat by a couple of media guy’s without accomplishing anything further first. NBA media has to lift the sport to raise their own ratings, so they disrespected a lot of legends to win over another generation after the absence of MJ. Though it is a subjective debate, advanced criteria with different methods of scoring will show that Lebron has not been as effective as many believe. Lebron will be missed when he leaves but he will also most likely be put in the all-time conversation properly in due time. Many of his die-hard fan’s will be very disappointed by this.
Nobody can deny that Lebron flops as much as anyone that ever played the game. He sits back on defense complaining to refs for not calling clear flops. He literally has two seasons where he was last in the entire league for time spent getting past the half court on the defensive end, years ago when he was a more capable defender. He has blamed teammates for allowing opposing teams to score in 4 on 5 situations because he sat back complaining to refs. He’s had the biggest finals meltdown throughout NBA history, when he faced the Mavericks. Contrary to popular belief that Lebron makes his teammates better, almost all of them have had their worst stats next to him, including Wade, Bosh, Love and most other’s. Also contrary to popular belief, despite having the most help all-time, all of his teams have losing records when he goes to the bench because they’re so dependent on his style. So Lebron has not been an impactful leader for any team he’s played for. On the other hand, Most of MJ’s teammates had their best stats next to him. This includes Pippen, whom didn’t have good career stats except when playing next to him. And MJ’s teams have winning records when he goes to the bench, up to year without him, even making the playoffs despite having the worst offensive player’s without him being on the floor.
Allen Trias
February 22, 2022 at 5:01 pm
Yeah they won it thanks for suspending draymond green the heart and soul of GSW in clincher game 5…
Tylerrbh
February 22, 2022 at 7:29 pm
You talking about a one game suspension lol. Kyrie and love missed 5 games each in the finals.
Realistically without Kd/kyrie love injuries the warriors with Klay dray curry should be at 0 rings lol
Foe Rojo
February 22, 2022 at 5:22 pm
The road was harder for LeBron based off their Finals Opponents alone. Nothing else needs to be said after that
Igor Novakovic
February 22, 2022 at 5:49 pm
It’s clearly Lebron and it has been for the last 15 years simply because so many people are living and getting payed from people trashing his legacy imagine how good he is if they still trashing his name and they all still getting payed because of it. People like Skip Stephen A Chris Broussard Nick have all made a lot of money from putting Bron down now that tells you everything and they still do today make money from selling fake narrative stories about Bron.
SuperDopeHipHop
February 22, 2022 at 6:23 pm
SAS and casuals arguments about Finals record is so moronic I can’t take it. By their logic LeBron would be BETTER if he was 4-0 in the finals with 6 other times losing BEFORE the finals or missing the playoffs! It’s one of the most moronic laziest takes ever.
MJ (who I love equally to LeBron and seen them both play 50+ times the last 36 years) making more finals instead of 9 other seasons losing in 1st rd, 2nd rd, conference finals and twice missing playoffs in year 14 and 15 with wizards (in supposed “weak east” when 8/15 teams make it) but losing would be worse then 6/6? If MJ was 6-4 with 6 MVPs instead 6-0 with 6 MVPs he’d be better somehow?!?!
It makes ZERO sense! In the Olympics who is better?
Someone with 6 Golds and 4 Silvers or just 6 Golds?
This lame argument also leaves out context like injuries, teammates, coaching, officiating, strength of finals opponents, etc etc!
MJ in 1989 ECF up 2-1 going home for game 4 (game 6 in Chi also) gagged losing 3 in a row and was outplayed those 3 games by Isiah! MJ was inefficient, bad FT%, lot of turnovers and all his stats were much worse besides apg! No one talks about though because it wasn’t finals? It’s soooo dumb (and don’t get me wrong LeBron 2011 finals was worse stain but they’re both gags).
SAS also shows he’s casual not mentioning Larry Bird Wilt Magic Hakeem & Duncan!
Protect Children At All Costs
February 22, 2022 at 6:32 pm
All these GOAT debates by SAS are obviously stupid.
Matt
February 22, 2022 at 7:02 pm
Lebron made that comment a long time ago
asvp flee
February 22, 2022 at 8:33 pm
THERE’S NOTHING BRON CAN DO! The NBA did all they could to help rig his chips to debate MJ – it didn’t work! 🤣💯
IsThatNasir
February 22, 2022 at 9:49 pm
10 straight finals must not be winning